;.; Why do people hate Drgs?

angelstar107 · Post by **angelstar107** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:44 am

Lately, I've noticed that people Shun a dragoon that is below level 60. I mean, it's not like we, as players, did anything to deserve the abuse that we get most of the time.

I'm a 47 Drg on Remora. Sure, not the best of places for the job that SE Gimped out of everything, like talent, but I'm not about to make myself feel even more retarded for insulting one of my favorite jobs.

One thing I've noticed in parties is that you are treated like uber crap. I mean, I thought it was bad when I was a Whm and everything insulting me because the warrior didn't provoke at the right time, or because the puller pulls something way too strong (I.E: Leeches in Qufim at level 22). But seriously, I'll be racking up damage like no one's business, and I know how to use my WS to create SCs and/or do a hell of a lot of damage, but what I hear half the time is: "Stop getting in the way.". I mean, EXCUSE ME! I'm doing more damage than the fricken Drk you brought into the party that doesn't use his Drain-Stat spells to help everyone out, or the Pld that doesn't know what "Provoke" Does.

Seriously though, I'm really curious to know why people hate 99.9% of all drg before level 60. I swear they only like us because WSs like Wheeling Thrust and Skewer, which, if we don't have, they don't like us.

People of other jobs complain about waiting a few (2-3) hours for a party between level 45-50. Did you know a Drg, on average, waits roughly 4-8 hours for a party between the levels of 40 and 50? We got it bad. I mean, Bsts see more parties than drg do.

Someone explain to me, who the hell was it that made people hate Drg? We're not bad people, yet we are treated like scum. So, someone, anyone, please tell me, why do people hate Drgs?

Post by **Karou Ariyen** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:54 am

becuase most players are arrogant fools (no one in the pride mind you) who dont understand the usefullness of dragoons, why Ask Liohs of Firemyst they'll tell you to never give up

Kintrra · Post by **Kintrra** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:25 pm

I've yet to figure that out myself as to why the DRG's are looked down on so much. Hell, I'm rather fond of them, if for no other reason than so I can pet the wyverns. ^^ But I mean, come on, for sheer damage, the only one that comes close so far is DRK last time I checked. PLD's are tanks, WAR's kinda play the middle of the physical game, and DRK's and DRG's just dish everything out. So what if DRG doesn't have a handy little sidebag of black magic? They get the Wyvern, and that's an extra attack. ^^ Not to mention they can help keep the hate on the PLD (or whatever tank) by using the higher jumps to get the hate off themselves.

xAsharahx · Post by **xAsharahx** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:36 pm

Well i decided to look into this and started asking some of the high lvl drgs on my server (seraph ~.~ ) from what i was told its mostly an issue with AoE in Crawlers nest those Flys dish it with Dark Sphere and we lose our wyvern.. which people say we lose and were useless.

Also in Gustav Tunnel end of the 50s again Bomb kill the wyvern. same issue there.

People just arnt willing to go to the other places where drg will be useful... then theres a pointless excuse i discound where people say "i dont like drg" that isnt an excuse. Or other drg on the server have dragged it through the dirst with crappy attitudes.

I'll Account in Kuftal Tunnel i was lvling my drg and there was another drg soloing a crap beside us (his mobs AoE was disrupting our fight >:O) But anyway he was showing off to a rdm to prove he could do it. And that attitude gets to people.

All high lvl drg told me was to make my own PTs which can be hard but its looking like the only option for that sexay purple armour. presently im stuck on 54 trying to rebuy my snipers to go back to it ~.~

Other then that noone ever really gives me a good reason why they dont invite drg ~.~.

May not apply on youre server but something to bear in mind.

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:45 pm

dont buy into the BS that you need 1000000+ ACC for DRG or DRK

I pitched my ACC gear as DRG and I am still doing fine when I eat Sushi........going to keep trying it and see how it goes

xAsharahx · Post by **xAsharahx** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:36 pm

I know it is mostly BS i just loved it when i used sushi too and never missed that was where it was at lo lthose snipers were worth every gil... til my friends got debt and came running to me.. i lost 1 too a friends debt which i know i wont get back and the other i went in a huff to lvl rng to 45 XD.

But yah i liked that ACC+

.

Still yah that was another thing people quite dislike the speed at which we swing and if we miss alot theres an issue hence ACC freaks are born. ill lvl without i just like never missing

Josiejo · Post by **Josiejo** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:51 pm

Wouldn't Haste+ gear be more beneficial, then? More swings, at least.

I dunno... I think it's a combination of everything needing some sort of lowest case to compare themselves to, and players discovering the shortcomings of DRG as they leveled it. I was really excited at the thought of playing as a SAM/DRG for the jumps, because I thought it would help with raising TP. But it misses a lot in groups until you level your weapon close to max, and if your Wyvern dies, you'd better hope you are maxed, or else you'll just be hoping no one else is noticing your miss rate. I leveled DRG up to 20 and was glad to retire it. I don't even know if I'll use it as a sub, even for fun... the recast timer on Jump is too long to really be useful as an added ability, given other possible abilities from other subjobs. Plus the fact that there's no way before 25 to heal (without resting) your Wyvern, and at 25 you can only do it by hurting yourself... it's just naturally gimped.

I don't mind so much inviting a DRG, but I will admit that I do usually look for stronger all-round jobs first, like SAM, RNG, WAR, PLD, MNK and THFs (over 25). I don't like that I do that, but I sorta do it without really thinking about it, as if the prejudice is subconscious or something. DRGs and DRKs just need something to improve their desirability, although I'm fresh out of ideas as to how to do that.

xAsharahx · Post by **xAsharahx** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:17 pm

Hmm that may be something to look into but i much rather know my hits are landing then me swinging more to miss more yah know :\ maybe thats just me. Well when i get money and such ill look into this option but 25 is really when drg both takes off and crashes all sad.

And yah afetr 60 i heard better invites.. well i have one thing to yell

LET US GET THERE!!

There we go i feel better .... ish... well ill feel better drg 60 sexay AF HOO YAH!!

Well theres what i have to say on such matters

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:04 pm

And yah afetr 60 i heard better invites.. well i have one thing to yell

LET US GET THERE!!

There we go i feel better .... ish... well ill feel better drg 60 sexay AF HOO YAH!! Very Happy

Hehe I am trying, I am 56 and 1/2 right now and I have all AF but my helmet (notgetting it until I hit 60) and once I am 60 with full AF I will post a pic ^.^

Post by **Ambrey** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:16 pm

Im a lvl 61 mithra Dragoon on Remora. I use Sole Sushi when xp'ing. I have all my AF, Scorpian harness, Assault earring, Sun ring, Sniper (tho I dont even need a Sniper), Merman's gorget, Schwarz lance, Armemit +1 mantle, Life belt...

I have the best gear gil can buy for the most part.

I can out damage and out hit most Dark Knights (even Dark Knights with dual snipers) I have partied with.

I can keep up with most Samurai's skillchains.

I have stolen hate from some of the best Paladins I know of on the server.

I have done more damage than a Galkan war/nin using Rampage the same lvl I am.

I can solo up to Toughs on my own with my Rdm sujob.

I can do all of this yet I am required to make my own pt's or static with friends in order to lvl or face the shame of sitting in Jeuno and hoping for a pt...

Part of the reason why Drg's (as well as other melee jobs might I add) don't get parties much is because Squenix has designed the game with a major flaw, whether it was intentional or not we may not ever know.

For End Game, the only jobs that are truelly desired are rng, pld, nin, rdm, whm, smn, blm. Thats it. Drg, Sam, War, Drk, Mnk, Bst... none of them are desired or must haves for End Game. Ask any HNM, Dynamis or God LS. They have a general rule of thumb, all melee lvl 65+, mages lvl 70+. As many mages as possbile, a MINIMUM of 12 Rng's, Pld's, Nin's as needed. Maybe 1 or 2 each of the remaining melee jobs.

Nin may be taking a backseat with the melees soon depending on how the following patch works as well.

Like it or not, Squenix has made not only the Drg's the most hated jobs of the game but slowly starting to take the rest of the melee jobs down with it, at least thats how it is on my server.

I guess all I can say is if you truelly love being a Drg, dont let everyone else ruin it for you, make ur own pt's, make as many friends as you can, get a good reputation or make ur name known and you will get invites. Be the best Drg you can be. But remember, if your not having fun with the job, dont play it. The whole reason your on the game is to have fun, when the fun is gone, there is no more reason to play.

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:11 pm

see that is the problem most people have forgoten that FFXI is not all about endgame, it is the path to it that matters

Eviticus · Post by **Eviticus** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 7:04 am

Ok, I think I have a good mechanics reason why we are not invited much past certain points. Damage type, piercing....wait a minute, Rng do that too. Ok, major SC positions....can...also be filled by a Ranger? Granted, we can do craploads of dmg over time. And I love Dragoon and am one myself, so don't think I'm trying to be down on us.

But simply put, we fit into the same DD slot as a Ranger, and mid/late game rangers have us beat for damage. Unless they suck, in which case we get to brag we out-damaged a Rng. ^.^

And about Josie saying Jumps miss alot, I've had about equal acc with my jumps as I have with normal attacks. You say you've gotten to lvl 20 then retired. That's a pity, because you missed out on one of our greatest strengths. Multiple jumps and hate loss.

I can close a SC, then immediately Jump then High Jump. A mere second ago I did my WS, now I have 37 TP. And because of the High Jump at the end, a large portion of my hate goes poof. I've done SA-Double Thrust, had the mob turn to me, double jump, and it turns right back to the tank. A DRK does SA-WS, and the monster wails on him for the next 10 seconds or so.

And ever since Qufim, I have not had trouble keeping my Wyvern alive till the Flies in Crawlers Nest. Even then, I politely ask them that we fight something else, and there is no problem. Also, I wait to heal my wyvern untill the Whm is doing Divine Seal+Curaga or something after the fight. That way he/she doesn't have to spend an extra cure on me. Also, Spirit Link can easily be cured by a Regen, so most often I ask that they not consider me a priority for healing, just keep me Regened if I take a few hits, and everyone is happy.

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:48 am

no offense to DRG users..
i also find sexyness within DRGs..
but as in pt.. not really useful... as in abilities they can do in pt

if you are to tell me about other jobs.. what they can do..
i can clearly tell you or compare to other jobs

Neoshinobi · Post by **Neoshinobi** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:12 pm

From what I've seen {Jump} and {Super jump} don't seem to do that much damage around mobs crawlers in {Boyahda Tree}

Crispleaf · Post by **Crispleaf** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:52 pm

Jae wrote:no offense to DRG users..
i also find sexyness within DRGs..
but as in pt.. not really useful... as in abilities they can do in pt

if you are to tell me about other jobs.. what they can do..
i can clearly tell you or compare to other jobs

I am by no means an expert at Dragoons, having never leveled the job myself.

But I do know they are underestimated. From what I can tell, it all started when an overpowering flaw in Dragoon/Samurais was corrected. Once level 60+ Dragoon/Samurais had tp, they used to be able to do almost unlimited Penta Thrusts... with Penta Thrusts that hit all 5 times every time. Once SE fixed this, everyone resented dragoons to the extreme. They've never recovered from this bad reputation.

The best thing about Dragoons is their ability to manage hate. With Super Jump, a Dragoon can remove all hate from herself. This makes her ideal as a thief's SATA partner. Because a Dragoon shares her damage output with her pet, she will be able to cause plenty of damage and, at the same time, be less likely than other damage dealers to steal hate.

Weapon Skills used by a Dragoon are complimented by bonus damage from the wyvern. Another side benefit of the wyvern's breath weapon is that its highly likely to point out the elements the mob you're fighting is weak to. This can be valuable, especially when fighting monsters that can have a variable elemental weakness or when fighting monsters whose weaknesses aren't well known.

Since Dragoons are proficient with spears, they are valuable in setting up Distortion Skillchains, especially for Thieves using Viper Bite. Nearly all polearm attacks can start a Distortion skillchain, so the strength of the attack only increases with the Polearm Skill. Since the most common elemental weakness among popular xp monsters is Ice (crabs, pugils, beetles, flies, crawlers, lizards, scorpions, etc.), being able to create a Distortion Skillchain is no small thing.

In HNM linkshells, overlooking Dragoons when going after the infamous dragons of Vanadiel would be unwise. Fafnir and Guivre aren't nearly so terrifying if Ancient Circle is protecting you. And Dragon Killer will make Dragoons an indispensible damage dealer in those fights.

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:08 pm

I will put it simply........

DRGs are not tanks
DRG are DDs

DRG is the only Melee job that can efectively use a Mage sub (others can too but DRG does it better)

but many do not relize how wel DRG can sub mage or halfmage (PLD or DRK) and acualy still play very well, and vcan even save the PTs ass at some point.

arcangel · Post by **arcangel** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 5:18 pm

frankly i love DRG in fact its my fav job of all time!
right now my drg is lvl 41 and i use merc head and body armor,battle gloves, 2 deft rings, rse shoes, 2 beetle earings, warrior belt and dhamel mantel and for my weapon i cant think of its name but i think it ,ight be the obliek lance or how ever you spell it. ayways i do just as much if not more dmg than the drks i pt with! for example the other day i was in a pt in gustav tunnel and i was out dmging the drk by about 2-40 dmg per hit! and that was without berzerk active! see why i love it ^^

Post by **Shirai** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:31 pm

Well, to just give my reply and opinion about dragoons,

As for the job,
I love it, they can do massive damage with Weapon skills and have the extra damage with their wyvern.
If they do the job correctly and have the right equipment that is.

The unemployment of dragoons is only for one reason.
about 75% of the dragoons dont know how to do their jobs or how to equip for the job.
Most of the 75% don't even eat food.
Making them miss a lot and have a real slow TP gain.

A good drg can be put in line with a rng when it comes to damage dealing.

A bad drg, well... most of you know yourselves.

Lihera · Post by **Lihera** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:40 pm

Well, I think the only reason that people dislike dragoon as a job, is because they don't understand the role in a pt.

Now, there are those who play dragoon as t3h ub3r m3l33 DDz0rz, and those who play it to it's most beneficial role in the party: DD/Hate control. Using jumps carefully, they can create almost hateless damage, allowing for less MP consumption on the healers part, and thus better XP chains. Trying to compare DRG to DRK is a useless effort, for they are two entirely different jobs. A well equipped DRK should out-damage a Dragoon (if they can't, more power to the DRG), however, the drg will let others do their job more effectively.

However, my favorite reason for inviting a dragoon, is that I can do a second SATA offa them and not disturb the planted hate. All the people I've partied with are insistent on only one SATA per battle for some reason, and I'm glad that I can pump out an extra 300-500 damage per battle because a "lesser" job is present.

/salute Dragoon

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:44 pm

However, my favorite reason for inviting a dragoon, is that I can do a second SATA offa them and not disturb the planted hate. All the people I've partied with are insistent on only one SATA per battle for some reason, and I'm glad that I can pump out an extra 300-500 damage per battle because a "lesser" job is present.

hehe if a THF is in my PT I have to tell them to do it -.- I get"you will get hate" and I respond with "just doit and watch" :p this shows that youare right, and many do not know what a DRG is good at doing......a hate sink

Yugi · Post by **Yugi** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:46 pm

i think drg is cool but i don't have and advanced jobs yet.>.< it takes mnks and thfs hours to get an invitye..and its not fair that their jerks about it ;.; id have any job in my pt as long as thries a whm.^^

Post by **sakono** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:20 am

this is about drg's but i wanted to say my first job was thf and i got it to lvl 22 before i ended up switching to whm and blm.

no one likes thfs at all when i was lvling it.. they all said thf sucks ass untell 33 when they get viber bite. and when i was in a party theyd get on my case to use a sword insted of my dagger (which may bot of hit for as much but it was faster and hit more then i did wath a sword)

i do plain on lvl thf again but i'm going to sub nin for it. i just need to get nin lvled more and get utsusemi and the other scrolls.

then you'll see me playing thf/nin and nin/thf and useing them like there ment not just utsusemit but all nin scrolls as well as thfs abilities too

Kyuiily · Post by **Kyuiily** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:51 am

On Asura I don't have difficulty in getting groups on my dragoon, just got it to 25 today in 5 hours.

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 3:33 am

On Asura I don't have difficulty in getting groups on my dragoon, just got it to 25 today in 5 hours.

well you can level fast from 1-30 on DRG, but when you hit 40+ it gets hard untill you get to 60+ but even at that level you still will have trouble getting PTs, I am just hopeing that my rep will help me get PTs more :p

xAsharahx · Post by **xAsharahx** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:18 pm

If you do have problems getting pts then make youre own is just about the only way. I only got 54 since a friend was lvling rdm and managed to get me in.. Which i dont feel right about but hey its a pt and they got i got a good reaction so 1 for the team.. but not like theyll tell neone else so kinda pointless.

But yeah as you struggle make youre own or hitch a ride is my tip lol it can and usually does work.

Josiejo · Post by **Josiejo** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:54 pm

Wyverns need armor... or thicker skin. I just got tired of losing my Wyvern to AoE attacks (Bomb Toss, or Crab/Pugil AoEs), and it felt like healing it would either a) slow the exp down or b) keep me from fighting a portion of the battle, when I should be DDing. With my Wyvern, I felt pretty useful, but once you lose it, it's like 2 hours of gimpness. :/

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:14 am

Lihera wrote:Well, I think the only reason that people dislike dragoon as a job, is because they don't understand the role in a pt.

People do not understand a SAM's role in a party either. What they do understand is raw damage numbers. I have heard of MNKs getting booted because they don't do enough damage. The over time part seems to be totaly forgoten.

So they look for DDs with BIG numbers. RNG, BLM, DRK.....

The only rational excuse I have heard for not inviting DRGs is the Wivern gives the mob too much TP.

You THFs with no advanced job should look into /MNK and a set of Republican Knucks. As much as I hate to say it, for sheer damage output for the under 33 THF, H2H >> Sword >> Dagger. My Hume THF, level 22, keeps hopeing for a party full of newbies who won't ask her if she has anything better than a dagger. Her Swors and H2H are always capped, but her Dagger skill is seriously lagging. /sigh

Kailea · Post by **Kailea** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:34 pm

there is nothing wrong with a THF useubg Dagger before 33, I leveled from 1-37 with dagger only, and never used any other weapon, and changed from MNK sub to NIN sub at 24. Also, you are right people have seem to forget about DOT and just look at the raw numbers witch is stupid -.-

Post by **Alya Mizar (Tsybil)** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 1:45 pm

Nothing wrong with it, just more damage with other weapons.

Rinaah · Post by **Rinaah** » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:06 pm

Dragoons kick butt, plus we Mithra looks sexy in that purple armor.

When I get board with lvling Blm, lvling Drg is my favorite out of all melee. When I played Drg/Whm, I can't count how many times I saved the pt with heals. Naysayers quickly change their tune when I show them up.
There will always be naysayers in any job. One example is just the other day in Kuftal Tunnel, we were fighting robber crabs and we had another Blm in our pt besides me. He saw me nuking with Fire II and not casting much Thunder II, he kept yelling at me not to cast Fire and if I knew their weeknesses. I answered by telling him that yes, I know their weekness, but I'm not going to stop casting fire if its landing for more than 200 dmg consistantly.. I also pointed out how his thunder casting spam was drawing hate like nothing else. Needless to say he started casting fires as well. The moral of the story is their will always be ppl to say bad things.. it is just your job to proove them wrong.

I got much satisfaction playing Drg and constantly prooving everyone wrong. Look at my lvl of War and you can understand I don't sub war and so get more criticizm than normal.

Oh.. I wanted to also mention that I used to critical hit like it was nobodies business. I must have been doing something right.